Thursday, April 3, 2008

Repost: Queer Thinker - Finally Surprised Me (with my added subtitle: Asian Guys Are Hot Too)

Here is a pic of Jang Donggun, 장동건, just 'cause.

Ohmygod...I was surfing around tonight and tripped over this post: Finally Surprised Me over at QueerThinker's blog.

Nunya makes so many great points in this post. I say that because I've got a new appreciation for just how damn sexy some Asian men are. I'm talking red hot. The white men here...nevermind, but they really don't compare. I've had a few crushes in the past (my former hapkido assistant instructor comes to mind as the most insane crush), so this isn't new. However, the predominant stereotype of the Asian man isn't one that's associated with sexiness. But, as I'm a black woman, I know very well how inaccurate stereotypes can be on an individual level. I feel like I'm in some minority when I talk about how this or that guy is cute if he happens to be Asian. In terms of actual relationships, however, it's the culture divide that's the deal breaker. The wonderful exception is the kyopo, who is in every way that I am, a Westerner.

Anyway, I like the points she makes because living in Asia I've seen quite a bit of bullshit when it comes to race and dating.
I guess another thing that surprised/bothered me was this idea that one race is better-looking than another. For some reason, it seems like black men are the flavor du jour while Asian women are the counterpart flavor du jour. I'm tired of that. While I have my preferences, I know there are times when a white guy will be the best-looking in a room, a black man will be the hottest, etc.
Dudes, please spare me with the "I like Asian women" drivel. They're very pretty and, yes, they don't have that edge that Western women have which means they're basically nicer. I got it. However, we all know that another reason you love them is that back home you'd NEVER score with women this pretty. Let's get real.

Also, I've got to say that going on and on about it would actually repel me. I've had guys tell me just how much they loooooooooove black women. That's great, but say that to me and you'll never see this black woman again. There is something patently offensive to me having someone reduce me to my color. Yes, it's a big part of who I am and defines me in some ways, but it's not the only or, dare I say, primary thing about me. If that's how someone sees me and they're careless enough to admit it. I'm gone.
Furthermore, I feel like this sudden fashionability of black men is, yet, another symptom of this mass movement occurring in the US entitled "White People Dying To Demonstrate We're Not Racist." ... But I think some of these other women are silently self-congratulatory, thinking they are waging their own modern-day civil rights movement or some such crap with their black boyfriend or husband and a Barack Obama sticker on the car or whatever. With Asian women, who knows...perhaps white men are being "revolutionary," too, but are generally too wimpy (or shall I say too fond of white male power?) to go too low on the social totem pole.
Wow! I've never been able to articulate that. I'm glad she did.
You see, I've kind of noticed that white women who get with black men tend to not have black female friends or even associates, and white guys who get with Asian women tend not to have Asian male friends or associates, HAHA. Not all, though, but I've seen it too many times.
Yep, I know a lot of white men here who've dated tons of Korean women but talk nothing but shit about Korean men. Those men are their fathers, brothers, cousins and friends. They're going to be at your weddings too white guys, so be nice to them. Korean society is far from perfect, but, really, to even say that is beyond rude and it simply smacks of some whites, yet again, being stuck in a colonialist mindset and thinking they're superior.

Here is the full post. You can click over to read it too.

Finally Surprised Me

Since I can't sleep, I've been thinking about this experience I had this past weekend and decided to come share.

Some friends of mine and I went out. This particular group of friends is great because we always end up having real conversations, whereas with some of the other people I know they always want to talk about the same empty twenty-something nonsense. Closer to the end of the conversation, we somewhat did that by talking about guys. One of my white friends, whom I've referred to here before as my best friend in law school (BFLS), said that she thinks black men are the most attractive men in response to my mentioning that another one of my white friends (my best friend in music, BFM) thinks black people are the most attractive. And since she was speaking to two black women, she assumed we would agree with that. I guess my black friend agreed, but I didn't see her response because she was sitting beside me and I was looking at BFLS, who was across from me. Plus, I just figure she probably would agree--I can't really see her dating interracially, though we've never talked about that.

When BFLS kind of asked us if we agreed that black men were the most attractive, I was thinking, "HELL NO!" and just shook my head no. She was kind of like, "You don't?" And I could feel that the next thing would probably be to assume I thought white guys were the most attractive, because that's what so many people do, i.e. the only options are black or white. At the same time, this is a friend of mine who should know better, because I tend to carry on about white men and not in a good way. I've been doing that with her almost ever since I've known her, so 2 & 1/2 years. So I just said, "I like Asian guys."

And then both of my friends went crazy. How? I guess just out-of-this-world couldn't believe I said that or could think Asians are more attractive than white or black people. Now, with the black female, I'm not necessarily surprised. I know how most black women are about Asians, especially when thinking about blacks and Asians dating--it's weird to most. But with BFLS?!?! White females actually do date Asian males. And, though I know Asians still do experience racism from white people, I have just never seen it, at least not in real life. To me, white people generally love Asians and have no problems with dating or doing anything else with them, so this was really amazing to me. And it still is. And, you know, I'm not ever surprised by racism, but this has really caught me off guard.

I kind of want to ask BFLS what that was all about. Chances are the whole thing will get lost in the hustle to graduate and figuring out what to do about the Bar exam. But I have a hard time resisting attempts to answer questions like this. And the other reason why her reaction surprised me is I know she would have something to say if someone acted like that in response to blacks. Usually, I hate when people try to act like everyone in the US gets way more up in arms when bad things happen to black people and just 100% won't tolerate unfair treatment towards blacks while they will do so with every other disadvantaged group and sometimes even with whites--it's not true. But with her, I think it is; she would have poo-pooed someone if they had acted shocked that anyone thought blacks were hot.

And this isn't the first time this has happened, but I guess I'm more shocked because I know her better. The other time was actually when BFM told me that her fiance--white guy--said he doesn't find Asian women attractive. Now, I was really surprised at that, too, and still think about that comment in amazement. But with that comment, it's not the racism I find in it so much as...you know, I've never heard of a white guy not liking Asian women, HAHA. And with him, I think he wouldn't totally dismiss dating a black female, so that's also interesting. I'm pretty sure many Asians have these experiences as teenagers and younger with white people, but I didn't really think it kept happening after that because the majority of white people appear to grow into a point where they accept Asians as almost no different than they are.

And the funniest thing is after her reaction, BFLS got back on her liberal (though she denies being a liberal) throne and started talking about how Asian men are hurt by interracial dating. As always, she was correct and knowledgeable with what she was saying. But still, you're going to act like I told you I was going on "Flavor of Love" so that I can date Flavor Flav at the idea that Asian guys can look better than black guys, and then talk about how much harder it is for Asian guys than other guys to find women. With people reacting like that, uh, YEAH it's harder!!

I guess another thing that surprised/bothered me was this idea that one race is better-looking than another. For some reason, it seems like black men are the flavor du jour while Asian women are the counterpart flavor du jour. I'm tired of that. While I have my preferences, I know there are times when a white guy will be the best-looking in a room, a black man will be the hottest, etc. In the past year, I've gone from being interested in a lily white-looking female to a dark black female to a half-Asian/half-white female. This weekend, I stayed up all night watching re-runs of "I Love New York 2" on VH1 and just thought the black guy Buddha was the sexiest thing. She picked this wimpy white guy called Tailor Made because he would allow her to run the relationship, and I get that--I applaud her for that one, not to mention find it hysterical. But the white guy had nothing on the black one. Buddha was just sexy. I'm not one of those people who exalts one race; I see beauty where beauty exists, and it could be in anybody.

So, I just can't stand when people make a blanket statement that one race is the most attractive, or act like a couple of races are acceptable but others aren't. Part of the reason I was like, "HELL NO!" was because I was rejecting the blanket nature of BFLS's statement. In other words, no, I don't think black men are more attractive than other men--I think there are all kinds of attractive men. Generally, I don't want to date them. But I notice good-looking guys. Furthermore, I feel like this sudden fashionability of black men is, yet, another symptom of this mass movement occurring in the US entitled "White People Dying To Demonstrate We're Not Racist." I know this is not true of BFLS. She's marrying a white male, and she said she wouldn't date black men because 1) that hurts black women, and 2) she would be afraid of black women, HAHAHA. Oh, man, I love that woman! HAHAHA. Plus, you can't be friends with me unless you acknowledge your racism, which she did a long time ago. But I think some of these other women are silently self-congratulatory, thinking they are waging their own modern-day civil rights movement or some such crap with their black boyfriend or husband and a Barack Obama sticker on the car or whatever. With Asian women, who knows...perhaps white men are being "revolutionary," too, but are generally too wimpy (or shall I say too fond of white male power?) to go too low on the social totem pole.

Anyways...

Meanwhile, they've got a little problem with Asian men and black women, gasping at dinner tables when people find them attractive or completely acting like they don't exist. Yep...definitely not racist. You see, I've kind of noticed that white women who get with black men tend to not have black female friends or even associates, and white guys who get with Asian women tend not to have Asian male friends or associates, HAHA. Not all, though, but I've seen it too many times.


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11 comments:

  1. Very interesting and not a surprise at all. Some people are pathological and have an agenda when it comes to dating.

    If someone is lovely, they are that. Period. I think Andy Lau, Ekin Cheng and Takeshi Kaneshiro are hot like fiyah. Period.

    It's when people come to the table with their baggage, stereotypes and crazed fantasies that all bets are off.

    I mean who the hell wants to feel like someone's science project? I think Denzel, Wentworth Miller, Gary Dourdan & Maxwell could be members of my own personal harem.

    LOL! Folks are nutty as hell.

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  2. Word. A lot of Asian dudes are blazing hott!

    In any situation though, I'm all for international/ethnic/"racial" dating but it's really hard for me to get down with a guy who's NEVER had any black friends. I'm always thinking, You might be able to get along with me, but how are you gonna get along with my family? I might seem like a "crossover" but my family's full of regular black folks and like they say in India, "Marriage is not between two people, but two families."

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  3. Yeah Expat I knew you had a crush somewhere in your heart LOL. Anyway yeah some Asian men are very sexy. Some of my favorites are Louis Koo, Daniel Wu, Andy Lau, Takeshi Kaneshiro, Song Seun Hun, So Ji Sub, Lee Dong Gun, Lee Jung Jin-very sexy-, Kwon Sang Woo(the body), Lee Ki Woo,Kang Jyun,and last but not least Oh Ji OH(can't $%^^ with the Oh-not even close.)

    Unfortunately these men will never get their true props because it's all about Patrick Dempsey and how the hell did Matt Damon grace the cover of People's Most Sexiest Man alive issue, I am like People couldn't find anyone and George Clooney, he is suave but sexy no way Jose. I am like would you be feeling that way if he was broke as a joke...NOPE.

    Nevertheless, it's time for Asian men to come to the forefront and make their stand be known and if it comes off as threatening so bid. The one thing I don't like is the esmaculation of the Asian man. I mean just look at some of the images you see on t.v not only in Korea but throughout the world. I mean Super Junior looks like a bunch of girls and it seems the young female public likes that it seems they prefer their men soft and that's not always a good thing.

    The men I mentioned earlier would run circles around half of hollywood and they know it, that's why to project a strong Asian man on the scene is rare and few between but the images of strong white men are everywhere and majority of them are not attractive.

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  4. I'll be quoting you in the future:

    "I see beauty where beauty exists, and it could be in anybody."

    Amazing post. I can honestly say, very easily, that I adore beauty. Doesn't matter where it is coming from. Asian. Black. White. Hispanic. I'm attached to a personality more than I am to the exterior, because that'll eventually change over time.

    Hahaha. Can we be best friends?

    =D

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  5. I waited a bit to reply to comments on this post. I think one reason was I just didn't have the energy to reply. However, now it's my Monday off, my brain is in analytical mode and I've got nothing else to do.

    Morgan - well, I didn't write that wonderful line but that line you quoted is one of the reasons I was moved to repost what she wrote. It's just irritating to be in the midst of such a deep level of stupidity all around me.

    Small - well the emasculation issue flows from many negative stereotypes about the Asian male. Also, there is simply a different aesthetic working here in Asia. I read it somewhere on another blog, but the writer categorized it as the "Asian Pretty Boy" or something like that.

    There are some physical traits that some races have a preponderance of. I mean black women and figures they love us for (usually big breasts and big butts) and the men who love us for it. It's not an exclusive physical trait, the black women I know with slim builds and J.Lo prove that.

    Asian men tend to have a slight build, but there are exceptions. I think the pretty boy thing here can be done with much more ease and there is nothing wrong with that. I think Super Junior is icky, but they're not selling to me and I don't think they're worried about what I'm thinking. I'm not in their demographic. I'm an American and carry with me a different idea of what is beautiful, but I won't knock their hustle. More power to them.

    T-hype - Yeah, I get that too. But considering how hard some people make it for others to get to know them and how some people are shy, it might just be those issues getting in the way. However, yeah, I'm much more comfortable in an interracial relationship if the guy I'm involved with has other black friends and has a certain comfort level with people who look like me.

    Danielle - I have no intention on being anyone's science project ;) I mean some guys need to think. If you're going on and on about how much you looooooooooooooooove black women and can only focus on physical or stereotypical attributes that really doesn't make me feel special. It actually reminds me of guys I know who do have an ethnic fetish (or blond fetish) and their girlfriends are essentially interchangeable. Um, no thanks.

    To me, that's really freakish because you're not dating me for me. You're dating me because I fit an image that correlates to your masturbation fantasies. Creepy.

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  6. It took a year with my Korean friend who is now my best friend, but I too find Asian men very attractive. The funniest part is that they themselves (find it shocking) that an AA woman would look at them that way.

    Either way, I am completely and utterly in love with Lee Jung Jin.

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  7. Well, for me it's what Nunya, aka QueerThinker, said, "I see beauty where beauty exists, and it could be in anybody."

    I also believe, Asian men have bought into the stereotype too. I mean, we, as black women have bought into a lot of the stereotypes that plague us. So a lot of us run around like we're unbreakable bad asses when really it wouldn't be such a bad thing to admit we need tenderness, love, and support just like the rest of humanity.

    I'm just an independent thinker most of the time and my first crush was within a few weeks of being here (yep, that hot azz assistant hapkido instructor). I don't need anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't like or should and shouldn't find attractive. A lot of men don't have any rules on it, particularly black men, why should we?

    And, good God...he IS cute: Lee Jung Jin, 이정진

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  8. Expatjane, wonderful post. I think you and Queer Thinker hit the point right on.

    I especially found interesting the part about how some white men/white females feel they are being "revolutionary" when dating Asian women/black men. I've personally known whites who have "gone down" and dated those "below them" on the "social totem pole", and it's as if they joined the Peace Corp. (Man, I would've loved to say that verbally and used air quotes 3 times in one sentence). For white men, it is the Knight-In-Shining Armor Syndrome, where they feel they are rescuing this poor victim of an overly abusive and oppressive social structure(because their fathers will bind their feet, sell them to a brothel for mah-jong money, and not letting them go to prom, etc) . For white women dating black men, it's as if they are guiding their black man to a better place because they of course would've gone astray without they're intervention. (you know, sell crack, rob a 7-11, etc).

    I think that's why whenever we see these couples, it's usually the Asian woman or the black man tends to slowly adopt their white partner's culture and not the other way around.

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  9. Yeah, I do think the minority in the couple tends to adopt the white culture rather than the other way around. Maybe that's part of the whole melting pot thing.

    I don't want to poo-poo interracial couples though. I don't think you were either. Honestly, most of the men I've dated haven't been black. However, because I'm a black woman it's rare that we date interracially anyway, so I'm just a damn freak ;-)

    I still want to hope that ~some~ of the whites who date out aren't doing it because of some social science experiment or doing it because they're "saving" the poor colored person.

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  10. I've always wondered that myself. Not to put down my own race (because I'm an 18 year old black girl and am proud of my heritage) but I've noticed through countless observations that the two races that make fun of Asians the most (especially black and asian couples) are black and white people. and my friends, and people in my school, find it extremely hilarious when people have "blasian" kids, and especially hilarious if black women were to find Asian men attractive.

    i love asian men. i'm not ashamed to say it. i don't believe they're the most beautiful race, because you can't say that about any one race. i believe all cultures are beautiful, asians are just my preference. It really is sad that in today's society, Asian men don't get the credit they deserve. Honestly, if people can still crack jokes about everyone who's Asian being related to Jackie Chan, and everyone laughs, how far have we really come? I wish people would be more accepting of Asian culture, especially Asian guys.

    to bring up a personal point, my mom and sister claim they're not prejudiced, but if i actually did marry an asian guy, them and most likely the members of my church would be shocked/confused. my sister, because apparently i speak more sophisticated than most, always joked i'd marry a white guy. boy am i gonna burst her bubble XD anyways, i'm glad other black women are standing up and proving that we're not stereotypes, and we can like whoever we want to like.

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  11. For me it's not a preference over another. It's just that living here, I eventually got to a point where I had to call myself on my own negative programming. Beyond a couple of crushes here and there, I'd never considered Asian men as possibilities.

    As a race, we've got a lot to get over. So many of us have tapped into our own negative stereotypes. We bash each other for doing well in school and for speaking standard English. How twisted is that?

    Also, black men rarely get any heat for dating and marrying out. However, let there be a mere whiff of a black woman thinking of dating a man of another race and people have something to say.

    Don't worry about the criticism. Call them on their b.s. and keep it moving.

    Glad you found this blog post.

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